Easter 2006
The numbers are in. We had 406 people yesterday which makes it our biggest service of the year… and last year… It may have been our biggest service ever in the last 3 years with our new leadership and staff.
What was even more important than the numbers was the atmosphere. It felt good. This was definitely the first Easter service that has felt good.
So we’re moving in the right direction. Finally.
April 25th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Easter and Christmas are traditionally the “biggest” attendance Sundays. I would be curious to see what your last 2 week’s attendance was. Again, this Service is no indicator of a “trend”. A wise man once said, “once is a fluke, twice in a row is a coincidence, three times is a trend”.
April 25th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Easter and Christmas are traditionally the “biggest” attendance Sundays. I would be interested in the weeks attendances since. A wise man once said, “once in a row is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a trend”. Don’t get excited just yet.
May 3rd, 2006 at 11:47 am
It wasn’t our biggest sevice we had 2 services at 409
May 3rd, 2006 at 11:50 am
who in the heck is tom? we were 342 the week before easter and 348 the week after and over 300 over 90% of our services this year after losing 200 people of the “old school” in 2 years. pretty good I think!! God is faithful!!!!
May 19th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Who in the heck is Eric Brown? Are you the “attendance keeper”? Curious why 200 “old school” people left your church? Does this mean that you are “new school”? What exactly does that mean?
May 21st, 2006 at 3:17 pm
I must have messed this up, I am new at this, but my comment of asking why 200 people left dropped off, thank you Tom for asking. I am just curious as to what old school is compared to new school and where I should be? Thanks.
May 21st, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Old School are usually people who are stuck in the “old”, hence the name. Basically they are people who can’t hack the change necessary to see “Life” in the church instead of religion.
May 21st, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Also, we receive 35 new families into membership a few weeks ago. I would call them “new” school simply because they are excited about what God is doing through the church and have good attitudes which makes a big difference in the atmosphere. Jen you could definitely fit in the new school if you want.
May 22nd, 2006 at 7:26 am
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I’m “new” school, then. But, what do you mean by “religion” in the Church instead of “life”??
May 22nd, 2006 at 8:12 am
Oh okay, so what was so bad with the old? Just so I can tell the two apart, and to see where I am. Thanks.
May 22nd, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Hey Tom, just curious. What’s your last name?
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:43 am
I am always excited about what God is doing in my life, where He is leading me, what His Word says, and what it teaches. It would be neat to see a church that is really following what God is telling them to do. When you say new school, exactly what do you mean? It is difficult to discern through a blog unless you are really clear. I am one of those folks that has been burned before, so I tend to be a bit cautious. Thank you!
May 24th, 2006 at 5:22 am
Mr. Smith, Brown and Scott. I’ve been watching this site with great interest. Could you please respond to the teaching of Paul in Romans 12: 3-6. My questions relate to verse vs 4-6. “Just as each of us have one body with many members…..so in christ we who are many form ONE body, and each belongs to ALL the others.” I’ve been hurt by many “leaders” of churches in the past, and I am blessed to be under a true pastor at this time. Do you believe that giving a group the name “old school” is how Christ would react in this day and age? Together we all get more done!!!!!!! What if the “new school” is not what brings glory to God? I still believe in all the Bible. Healing, prophecy, tongues, fruit of the spirit, the five fold ministry, ALL the Bible. Mr. Scott, do you know for a fact that the person that you titled a “crack pipe user” uses crack?! (see Church relate, corporate churches on this blog.) My Jesus died once for all! Therefor EVERYONE is valuable to ALL of us. It’s SCRIPTUAL!!!
May 24th, 2006 at 5:43 am
I don’t just give out my last name especilly on a blog. Who are you to ask?
May 24th, 2006 at 5:56 am
Hey Eric, I just re-read your message about 35 families joining your church, were they all salvations and new members? That would be awesome. There must be something really going on at your church.
May 26th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Hellooooo???? Waiting for comments to continue the thought…
May 30th, 2006 at 5:09 am
I think that Dave is correct that everything we do must be based in scripture and I think Tom is right we need to continue these thoughts. Any one else?
May 31st, 2006 at 5:36 am
Jen and Dave. I think that Josh, Eric Brown and Bennet Smith are ignoring the last few comments. What’s up with that?
May 31st, 2006 at 11:11 am
Hey guys. Sorry for the delay. For the most part, I’ve just been watching this conversation develop. I apologize for the aggressiveness of Eric and Bennett.
Jen, the majority of the new members we introduced not too long ago were all new salvations or families that hadn’t been to church in a long time. We have had some families come from a few Catholic churches too. That’s been fun because we are pretty different from a Catholic church. It takes a little bit of adjusting for them, but they know we have a huge emphasis on children. For the most part, the Catholic church doesn’t do a lot for children.
There is a ton of history here at this church that is nearly impossible to communicate through the comment section of a blog. But without this history, it’s easy to take the comments out of context. We are leading what we term a “turn around” church effort. Our church peaked in attendance around 1000 people back in the eighties and has since been in decline. When our current pastor took over there were about 300 people left.
We all knew that some drastic changes needed to be made if the church was going to succeed another 40 years. You probably all know that change can be difficult to deal with. Especially in church. Because of the changes taking place, many people have decided to look for a new church home. That’s where the term “old school” comes in. For the most part, everyone of these people left through the front door with their head held high and we respected their decision. We make a point of letting them know that the front door of the church is always open to them if they ever want to come back.
Then you have some that just blatantly oppose what you are doing. They pass judgment not only on your decisions but also on your spirituality and relationship with God. We haven’t had too many, but they are always tough to deal with. They usually cause a comotion on their way out. That’s where the “crack pipe” comment came from. I used it because it doesn’t matter whether or not they are right or wrong, they are dealing with the situation inappropriately. Jesus never intended for us judge church leaders’ decisions much less their heart and spirituality. I think that these people are just completely off base.
To tell you the truth, that’s not the first time I’ve gotten question from using that term. Maybe I should tone it down a little.
I appreciate the thoughts and comments and will definitely continue the conversation.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:10 pm
“We have had some families come from a few Catholic churches too. That’s been fun because we are pretty different from a Catholic church. It takes a little bit of adjusting for them, but they know we have a huge emphasis on children. For the most part, the Catholic church doesn’t do a lot for children.”
I converted to the Catholic Church after being raised in a charismatic, Protestant denomination (Assemblies of God). I’m stratching my head over this comment. What does the Protestant Church do for children that the Catholic Church does not do?
We have Sunday School. We have Vacation Bible School in the summers. We have Catholic Schools where kids take Religion as part of their core curriculum daily. And we have CCD classes for kids who attend public schools, so that they too can be schooled in the teachings of the Church. Our kids put on Christmas plays. We have LifeTeen youthgroups where teens can attend Mass, and then have fun activities afterward.
Maybe the Churches these families came from weren’t the most vibrant and faith-filled, but the Catholic Church does no less for children than the Protestant Church does.
And, considering the Church’s views on contraception, I would say we are even more “pro-children” than Protestant denominations.
Grace and peace.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:12 am
John,
Forgive me for generalizing the Catholic church. I know better than that and I know that you can’t stereotype such a large organization. I was more or less repeating what these families had told me, so it is probably specific to these local churches that they had been a part of.
Also, our children’s programing and ministry here is pretty intense. We tell everyone that children and youth are the church’s number one priority. And we don’t apologize for that. So the difference in what they are used to was pretty significant.
I do think the birth control comment was a cheap shot though.
But John, I’m curious as to why you converted to the Chathoic Church from an AG Church. You don’t hear that too often.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:49 pm
Josh,
“Forgive me for generalizing the Catholic church.” Consider yourself forgiven.
“We tell everyone that children and youth are the church’s number one priority. And we don’t apologize for that.”
I can respect that children are your Church’s number one priority. Of course, as a Catholic, I don’t believe that children are the Church’s fundamental concern, but they are important, and shouldn’t be neglected. We Catholics see the primary responsibility of the Church as threefold: the proclamation of the word, the administration of the sacraments, and charitable activity. Moreover, we think that “Sunday School” starts in the home, and that the education of children in the faith is, first and foremost, the responsibility of the parents; not the Church.
“So the difference in what they are used to was pretty significant.”
That may very well be. But I have a sneaking suspicion that these Catholic parents were amazed at your church’s emphasis on children’s programs because they failed to understand their own essential roles as the primary, religious educators of their children. Who can say?
The birth control comment was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. However, there is a kernel of truth there. We are intensely pro-children: to the point that we believe that anyone who deliberately interferes with the procreative side of conjugal love commits an “intrinsically evil” act. The Church has consistently taught that the innate language of sexual love between a husband and wife expresses a total and reciprocal self-giving, and that, contraception, by its very nature, contradicts that expression by not allowing the spouses to totally give of themselves to one another.
I’m actually a convert and a revert. I was raised in the Assemblies, left when I was about 15, and then joined the Catholic Church when I was 18. The liturgical worship always appealed to me. Then I left the Church for almost ten years, and went to various Protestant Churches while I was trying to hammer out where I stood theologically. I spent a long time frustrated and confused by what seemed to me as a lack of objective, definitive truth on all kinds of different issues: salvation, baptism, communion, the nature of the Church, etc. Then I went to a Catholic university to get my Master’s Degree, and saw a bunch of Catholics leading these amazingly vibrant, faith-filled lives and I became jealous. Not only that, but I took a course on the philosophy of love (my MA is in philosophy), and became convinced that the Catholic view of love and marriage was the best I had ever encountered. If the Catholics were right about that, then I thought maybe I should give the Church another look. I started studying Catholic dogma, and came back into the Church almost a year ago. I haven’t been this close to Christ in ten years, nor have I ever experienced this much spiritual growth and happiness.
Grace and peace.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:08 pm
I’m really beginning to wonder why Josh is answering the questions by Jen and Dave, directed at Eric Brown and Bennet Smith. By the way Josh, nice try.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Eric,
You said I could be “new school” if I wanted to. Well from the comments Josh has been making, I can be new school only if I have children. Well I don’t. And what happens to folks that have grown children? Does this mean you don’t have something for those folks?
And Josh, to your point that Jesus never wanted you to judge church leaders, I disagree. He constantly talked about being accountable. And what if you are wrong? What if your sermon is wrong? Who corrects you?
If all these people left because of “the change” at your church, did you make sure that they had heard from God to leave? If 200+ people heard from God to leave, perhaps some reflection should occur here.
I guess I am trying to be careful here, like I said before I was badly burned in a church I thought I could trust. Perhaps the best thing I could ask is, just what are you teaching? What is your doctrine? Thank you.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:21 pm
Wow. You guys sure make this tough. I jumped into the conversation to try to provide some clarification. I even apologized, but you guys are pretty bent on reading into it what you want.
Jen, I never said new school meant you had to have children or that we don’t do anything for people without children. I’m not sure how you even connected all that and arrived there.
Also, accountability and judging are 2 completely different things.
I would love for this conversation to go on…. but let’s keep it something that we will all benefit from.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:21 am
I think this is kind of amusing how an initial post about attendance on a particular Sunday turned into a debate about children, birth-control, judgementalism, denominational lines, aspects of legalism, and church leadership. Hmmm…interesting where people will allow a conversation to go.
So let me throw my own bone in…was this conversation predestined or is it of our own free will that this conversation ensues in the direction that it does? haha…just kidding…
June 5th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Joel,
At least on my end, the discussion wasn’t intended to be contentious, or anything other than amiable.
I had never been on this webpage before, until someone I know read the post; specifically, Josh’s comments about the Catholic Church, and thought someone should clarify a palpable, hasty generalization. Josh even admitted as much.
We can discuss things in cordiality.
John.
June 6th, 2006 at 5:51 am
John,
On a side note…I found your perspective on the Catholic church a very interesting read. I appreciate you saying what you did. I didn’t find it contentious, rather my point through all of this is where this post started and where it has gone. That is what I find amusing.
June 6th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Joel,
If your interest is piqued, I would encourage you to look into some of the Church’s teachings. Or, minimally, check out a book called “Rome Sweet Home” by former Protestant minister turned Catholic convert Scott Hahn. His testimony is dynamic. The book is also a very fast read.
Grace and peace.
John.
June 6th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
One other thing:
I’d be more than happy to field other questions or engage in further discussions with anyone about Catholicism privately (I realize this isn’t exactly the place for that kind of dialogue).
Any takers, feel free to email me at JWLaney1975112@earthlink.net.
Grace and peace all.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:34 pm
To bring this discussion back to the beginning, if anyone is still even reading this discussion, I just wanted to say that I was excited to hear about the great attendance on Easter. My wife and I are one of the new families that have just become a member of the Church at Polaris. We absolutely love it and are thankful to call it our church home now. Just thought I’d chime in and add my input on the initial topic at hand. Way to go and let’s build upon those numbers as we continue to move forward reaching out to the lost. The future is what I believe we all need to pressing toward and focused on. That’s why I’m excited to be a part of this Church and follow the leadership that has gone through many tough changes to make it what it is today. I am proud to be a new member here and look forward to helping it grow. Thanks and God bless.